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23 November 2013 @ 07:09 pm
day of the doctor reaction post!  
What did everyone think?

Spoilers in the comments below!
 
 
 
jedi_of_urth: seperatedjedi_of_urth on November 24th, 2013 04:38 am (UTC)
Yeah, the contradictions just between Night and Day were annoying. The EoT reveal that the Time Lords had been barely better than the Daleks by the end was this perfectly shaped puzzle piece that made total sense with everything we'd seen before and made the picture of it much richer. And Night tracked with that history, to anyone beyond the Time Lords and Daleks they each looked just as bad as the other, Eight shunning the war because he kind of thought the same way and just he was the exception.

Now yes, there probably were more innocents on the Time Lords' side than the Daleks and I could totally work with that being one of the things later Doctor's struggled with, but Day was casting them as the clear cut victims here. There was a mention early on about them having used forbidden weapons but it was lip-service to the darker story RTD told. (And I would add, Tine Lord society looks damned oppressive since everyone has to wear the stupid red robes, including the children running around. Even casting them as victims didn't convince me there was much worth saving here.) The weapons they were using aside from The Moment were just standard shoot-em-up weapons that were really unimaginative; likely to better evoke a sense of them being "normals" invaded by evil aliens.

Also, I'm not real clear on how this ending removed all Daleks and Time Lords from the universe. The Daleks just kept shooting at each other until they were all destroyed...and then went out into the universe and hunted down most if not all of the rest of their species who probably weren't all at Galifrey for the attack? And I know the Doctor is a radical for a Time Lord wanting to go out and see the universe so much, but surely not everyone was on Gallifrey if they have TARDIS' that could just leave before the end.

And yeah, there needed to be some explanation for why Nine (and so on) will remember watching Gallifrey burn. Sure time line shift not having the Doctor remember the full meet up to save it, but then what *does* he remember. Having that memory is what made him who he has been for years (centuries I guess), take it away and...what has he been all this time?

(I still miss Rusty. He may not have been great with complicated plots, but he usually knew where to stop epic-ing up his plots and certainly knew how to make emotionally true stories about the consequences.)
havamahal: foreverhavamahal on November 24th, 2013 06:07 am (UTC)
(I still miss Rusty. He may not have been great with complicated plots, but he usually knew where to stop epic-ing up his plots and certainly knew how to make emotionally true stories about the consequences.)

I don't think I've ever missed RTD as much as I missed him today. No, his episodes weren't perfect, but damn, that man knew how to make people feel something while watching them. You laughed, you cried, you cheered for the characters, even ones that had only 5 minutes of screen time. When Doctor talked about the horrors of Time War, you believed him, you felt for him - you understood he did whatever he had to do, because there really was no other choice and that he felt horrible about it. Moffat? I get nothing from his stories, especially not emotions. His plots rarely make sense and even when they do, he can't seem to keep track of what his DW universe looks like. One day there's only few remaining Daleks in the universe and the next day Skaro and thousands/millions of Daleks are back. What did he do with the Daleks in this episode anyway? I was so busy thinking about Gallifrey and what removing it meant, I nearly forgot about that. :/

Too many questions remained unanswered and knowing Moffat they probably never will be. I'm just surprised how many people (at least on FB) praised the episode and said how much they loved it. I guess we must've watched different versions of The Day of the Doctor. I mean, I'm not even that upset that Rose/Bad Wolf/The Moment didn't interact with Ten or Eleven (that's how low my expectations were, once I learned who would be writing the episode); I'm just happy that Bad Wolf was mentioned and that Ten even had a reaction about it for aproximately... 1,5 seconds? At least he didn't mess with Rose's canon... you know, apart from changing everything about her history with Nine and Ten. Probably.
vanimy: Doctorvanimy on November 25th, 2013 10:10 pm (UTC)
THIS BASICALLY. ^^^^^

Even if I was kind of let down by Bille Piper and David Tennant not interacting at all (honestly what was the point in Billie Piper coming back?) that wasn't what really pissed me off.

This whole retconning of RTD's canon really left me angry. First because if all Moffat wanted was bring back Gallifrey he could've done it any other way that didn't change the whole Doctor's past and ruined all his character development for the entirety of RTD's run. Second, because his version of the Time war absolutely sucked. Not impressive at all, Time Lords presented as poor victims in total contradiction with preexisting canon, the Doctor not doing anything worthwhile except for hanging around and tagging walls with stupid writing. Also why in the hell are Daleks afraid of the Doctor since he didn't burn his planet after all?

Third I actually like my characters with some layers, with black and white. Moffat obviously doesn't, the Doctor can do no wrong, right?? I for one prefer RTD's take on it, I think the fact the Doctor had to destroy his own species for the greater good made him a much more compelling character than this complete cop out. Also call me dumb but I don't see how all versions of the Doctor could simply suddenly come and go in a timelocked event (oh right, the Moment can do anything, right? *eyeroll*). The fact it was Clara who made everyone change their minds also made me roll my eyes hard.

Fourth, yeah this special made me miss RTD and David Tennant all the more. I love Matt Smith though, he's the only redeeming thing about the Moffat era. But yeah give me RTD's crackplots any day. He knew how to write characters and made you care for them and that's what's the most important thing in the end.

Moffat? Shows us the Time war and the most important moment in New!Doctor Who and I felt NOTHING for any of the characters. Also Ten was a caricature of himself.
havamahal: Christopher Ecclestonhavamahal on November 26th, 2013 05:43 am (UTC)
Third I actually like my characters with some layers, with black and white. Moffat obviously doesn't, the Doctor can do no wrong, right?? I for one prefer RTD's take on it, I think the fact the Doctor had to destroy his own species for the greater good made him a much more compelling character than this complete cop out. Also call me dumb but I don't see how all versions of the Doctor could simply suddenly come and go in a timelocked event (oh right, the Moment can do anything, right? *eyeroll*). The fact it was Clara who made everyone change their minds also made me roll my eyes hard.

Exactly! That's one of the reasons why I love Nine so much and why I love Ten. As for Clara... *rolls eyes* Let's not even start about that. When Clara first showed up, I had such high hopes for her. She had so much potential to be such a compelling character. In any other hands but Moffat's, I suppose. :/ Whenever I see her on screen now, it's like I'm watching a blank piece of paper. And every once in a while writing shows up on it - like in this episode: "and now Clara is going to cry and make the Doctor change his mind about destroying Gallifrey". Huh? She's just so unconvincing as a character to me, I can't buy for a second, that she was so heartbroken about those "innocents" on Gallifrey or that it was that that convinced Eleven to change his mind.

The Moment can do anything... yep. And what does it do? All it does is ask the Doctor about the innocent children on Gallifrey. Like it never crossed the Doctor's mind that they're also there?! What about the other side of the coin? Why didn't it also show him billions and billions of worlds that burned because of the Time War? I can't even remember how many species have we seen over the years, who lost their planets because of that war. The Moment had a conscience? Well, if it did, then it only cared for what happened to Gallifrey. To hell with the rest of the universe, right?

There's also few other things that annoyed me in the episode. (I was making slovenian subtitles for the episode, so I had to watch it again :P) The whole "There isn't anything we can do. There isn't another way, there never was." which 5 seconds later turns into "I have had 400 years to think about this. I've changed my mind." Er... what? And those Dalek reinforcements, they could've called (which means all Daleks weren't gathered around Gallifrey), but the Daleks will somehow all destroy each other in the crossfire? And since when has the Doctor always been "going home"? Why would he suddenly have this desire to go to Gallifrey? I thought he had a few good reasons to leave that place. Didn't he? I guess Eleven really is Doctor's midlife crisis. :/

3 good things in this episode:

1. Ten made me laugh again. I almost forgot how much I missed him.
2. Billie looked absolutely gorgeous! I swear, when this woman smiles, the whole room just lights up. That scene, when she talks abot the sound of the TARDIS and the smile she gives to Hurt's Doctor... Love it, love it, love it.
3. And then there's of course this: "Oh, Bad Wolf Girl, I could kiss you." "Yep, that's going to happen." (at least Moffat didn't retcon that)

Does this mean I have to start shipping Rose (or Bad Wolf?) with the War Doctor as well? ;))